one of your colleagues telling LBC
yesterday that Lucy Connelly released
from prison after a year or so uh of her
sentence for inciting racial hatred on
Friday was in his view, this is Matt
Vickers, a political prisoner. Do you
share that view?
>> Well, I think it's quite clear that Lucy
Connelly um well what she has said and
what others have said uh and the
sentences or uh you know or the the
punishments meated out to them do not
seem to be in the same category.
>> You think she's a political prisoner?
Well, I mean, you know, it's quite clear
that it's it's quite clear that she felt
that. I think we're all entitled to
>> Of course, she felt that. A lot of
people a lot of people who go to prison
think they've done nothing wrong.
Doesn't mean they are
>> No. Well, I also Well, I also don't
think that Lucy Connelly, you know, Lucy
Connelly did what she did is she tweeted
and then deleted a tweet, which also
means that she doesn't think
>> she also pleaded guilty to inciting.
>> Exactly. Which means that she doesn't
think she did she did absolutely nothing
wrong. She accepts that there's there
she did she did something. She pleaded
guilty at a court of law which is more
of a sign that she thinks she did
something wrong.
>> Exactly. I think therefore we got to
look at what is the punishment for that
offense.
>> But that's not what I was asking myself.
Do you think she's a political prisoner?
>> Well well actually actually Ben that
might be what you're asking because
>> it's not what I'm asking is do you think
she's a political prisoner?
>> Well Ben let me let me just let's go
into this if you want to have a
conversation about it. That's just
answer the question. It has it has to be
two ways right in that case. you know
what is she uh you know she if she's
imprisoned for the offense compared to
other people who weren't imprisoned for
similar offenses that's that's I think
the question which Matt was posing is is
is is justice too tier which is actually
more complex
>> I'm not asking you which is more which
is which is
>> I'm not asking you if her sentence is
too harsh I'm asking you whether you
think she is a political prisoner as
your colleague does
>> yeah well that's that's the point that's
the point I'm making Ben is that
actually it's quite clear there's
two-tier justice here and that's the
point that Matt was making is that you
can only be a political prisoner, right,
in in inverted commas if there's one
rule for one and one rule for another.
And I can quite understand why a lot of
people in the country, including Matt,
feel that actually, you know, there's
there's different sentences for the same
crime committed by different people
>> based on what?
>> Well, she's plead guilty in a court of
law, right, to an offense and was in
prison for 31 months.
>> But but what are the two tiers is what
I'm getting at? Well, there's quite
we've seen other people uh say saying
things online and not being sentenced in
the same.
>> So your point is that people are treated
differently based on what their
politics, their views.
>> Well, that's that's exactly the point.
That's exactly the point that is being
made. Yeah. That people are being
treated but
>> there's no evidence for that, is there?
>> Well, I don't think that's true. Uh Ben,
I think the evidence for I I think there
is real concern out there.
>> But what's the evidence for it? Well, I
mean, just just look at the we we saw
there's been a case a prominent case
recently. Yes. Uh with a Labour
counselor
>> who pleaded not guilty. Lucy Connelly
pleaded guilty. So, you can't compare
the two cases, can you?
>> Well, I mean, just because somebody
pleads guilty and somebody plead not
guilty doesn't, you know,
>> but had Lucy Connelly pleaded not
guilty, she too might have gone to a
jury and been let off in the same way as
you cannot compare the two and say it's
two. It's ridiculous.
>> Just Well, just a second, Ben. That's
that's that that you I think you you
make a fair point on that. But I think
also, you know, Lisa Connie has raised
questions herself over the legal advice
that she received at the time as to
whether that was the you know the right
action to take. So I think it's slightly
more complex than the black or white
thing that you're trying to
>> just why is she being fated as some sort
of hero? This is a woman who who went on
on on social media suggested that
basically migrants could be mass
murdered and burnt alive for all she
cared. plead guilty in a court to law to
convicting uh to um convict to inciting
racial hatred and for you some of your
colleagues seems to be some sort of
freedom fighter. No,
>> I don't think she's being fated as a
hero, but I think there are legitimate
questions to ask around uh the just
justice system in the UK where somebody
says something, apologizes, deletes
their uh thing quite quickly, and then
he's given a pretty severe custodial
prison sentence. uh when you're seeing
at the same time and we've seen this in
the last few weeks and months, Ben,
right? You're seeing people who've been
convicted, right, of child rape offenses
who were also given custodial sentences
which are under four years in prison
>> and just stop protesters got five years
in prison.
>> Well, well, yeah, but they were breaking
ser multiple court orders after multiple
different offenses,
>> which is more serious what than serious
sex offense.
>> Well, let's Well, let's just be let's
just be clear about that, right? They
were they were they were they were not
that was not a first offense right for
which they were being convicted on that
was and that was what they were
convicted on was after they've been
literally told by courts that they
should not do this again at time after
time after time they were they basically
found guilty of contempt of court which
is a different offense to uh protesting
which is I think what you were trying to
imply in your original question there I
think it's quite clear that there are
and that's what people are concerned
about when you're seeing some people
being convicted of uh of really serious
offenses on one side uh g being given
very harsh sentences uh sorry not being
given as harsh sentences of people who
are out there tweeting. I think that's
what is a legitimate concern and a
legitimate point of public debate in the
UK as should be on Britain's leading
leading Britain's conversation. The gay
right leading breast conversation.